tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post6576215516666040233..comments2015-11-17T20:50:34.783-08:00Comments on Into the Overflow: Seismic Shift.susan m hinckleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10073318305866251569noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-48665058781614963692015-11-17T20:50:34.783-08:002015-11-17T20:50:34.783-08:00I love this so much. Thank you for writing and sh...I love this so much. Thank you for writing and sharing your thoughts so beautifully.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067195046357565260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-8201655323517813902015-11-17T20:50:21.499-08:002015-11-17T20:50:21.499-08:00I love this so much. Thank you for writing and sh...I love this so much. Thank you for writing and sharing your thoughts so beautifully.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14067195046357565260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-51596119071606090152015-11-14T13:49:07.014-08:002015-11-14T13:49:07.014-08:00A long time ago I accidentally found a book at the...A long time ago I accidentally found a book at the library called Kidnapped From That Land: The Raids on Short Creek by Martha Sonntag Bradley. At the time she wrote it, she was a BYU history professor. She said that for a number of years the fundamentalist Mormons recognized a dual hierarchy, both their leaders and leaders in mainstream Mormonism. Their members would attend the temple to take out their own endowments, but continue to practice polygamy. I have some friends who were raised in polygamy, then recently converted and had to have an interview with a general authority. I don't know for certain, but assume it is related, at least in part, to that.<br /><br />As always, love your writing and your take on things.Rosalie Bergeson Petersennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-37752746473402468772015-11-13T12:37:19.999-08:002015-11-13T12:37:19.999-08:00Thank you for what you've written. You've ...Thank you for what you've written. You've expressed my own feelings perfectly. Luisa Perkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15310698422276446909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-64783594119971663282015-11-10T17:42:58.097-08:002015-11-10T17:42:58.097-08:00I just can't square it with anything I know or...I just can't square it with anything I know or understand about Jesus Christ, whose name is on the door. It doesn't make sense, and I like things to make sense.<br /><br />Susan, I've known you for decades, and your entire posting- particularly the excerpt above- has been one of the most compelling things I've ever heard you say or seen you write. Even though I'm not a follower of "JC", as I call him, I do respect 1) the things he said, and 2) the devotion he inspires from his followers. <br /><br />For what my input is worth, I think that as long as your Church has persons like yourselves as members- willing to "put it out there", for lack of a better phrase- and who are (also) willing to speak from the heart, as you so eloquently have done- that attitudes, beliefs, and eventual doctrines and standards will change. <br /><br />The LDS Church did not admit African-Americans' into the priesthood until, what...1978? In but three years that will be forty years ago. I myself am hoping the LDS Church will change it's stance on the children of same-sex marriages- not because I have any "dogs in the fight", so to speak, but (in part) because I think that will go a long way toward enlarging the circle you spoke of. It will take time. But years from now; decades from now...i can see it taking place. Robert J. Barronhttp://www.coloradoimmigrationaid.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-56148102540851943342015-11-10T12:35:29.769-08:002015-11-10T12:35:29.769-08:00You always put my own feelings into perfect verse....You always put my own feelings into perfect verse. I was attending a youth Sunday School with my special needs son this Sunday when it came up and I explained my feelings about it to the youth this way. A long time ago, April and I discussed how much the church's policy on not allowing a couple married outside the temple first to marry in the temple for a year. Despite the fact that couples in countries that don't accept temple marriages as legal are allowed to do this. As converts, the majority of our relatives can't attend a temple wedding. It put us in a situation of hurting people we love because we could not have a simple secular ceremony for their benefit first. I will always disagree with that particular church policy and I have put this new one in that same category. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02513880643671082982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-49580881988767834052015-11-10T10:02:19.392-08:002015-11-10T10:02:19.392-08:00Your are truly a gifted wordsmith. I can honestly ...Your are truly a gifted wordsmith. I can honestly say that I have confusion and yet so much faith that all will be well in His hands. Love you friend! <br /><br />I like this poem. I don't know the author. <br /><br />"The Weaver"<br /><br />My Life is but a weaving<br />between my Lord and me;<br />I cannot choose the colors<br />He worketh steadily.<br /><br />Oft times He weaveth sorrow<br />And I, in foolish pride,<br />Forget He sees the upper,<br />And I the under side.<br /><br />Not til the loom is silent<br />And the shuttles cease to fly,<br />Shall God unroll the canvas<br />And explain the reason why.<br /><br />The dark threads are as needful<br />In the Weaver's skillful hand,<br />As the threads of gold and silver<br />In the pattern He has planned.<br /><br />He knows, He loves, He cares,<br />Nothing this truth can dim.<br />He gives His very best to those<br />Who leave the choice with Him.<br />Alisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07823008944706499154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-74324981134005158002015-11-10T05:40:51.451-08:002015-11-10T05:40:51.451-08:00Thank you so much for this. I saw it on Facebook ...Thank you so much for this. I saw it on Facebook when my mom (Nedra) commented on it and it was comforting to have someone reflect my own feelings on this matter so beautifully. Jenicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04889530682946386562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-16354253468443540992015-11-10T01:10:38.358-08:002015-11-10T01:10:38.358-08:00So there was a big thing before this came out wher...So there was a big thing before this came out where a polygamist daughter from the reality show Sister Wives wanted to get baptized in the LDS church, but was told she couldn't unless she disavowed her family. She stated that she didn't want to be a polygamist, but she wasn't going to deny her family. I thought that was a pretty stupid move on the church's part. I love how the D and C spells out how it's a commandment from God, and most Mormons agree that it will be going on in heaven anyway. They try so hard to distance themselves from polygamy that they're tripping over themselves. Hey Mormon Church! I have polygamist ancestors! They thought they were being obedient to God(until the government went after them...)<br />Anyway, I don't know if this is true, because it smells like a steamy pile, but someone said that the Mormon Church had issues with FLDS sending their kids over to get baptized with the true priesthood power, and apparently boys would get ordained, and then take it back to their branch of Mormonism. I don't see why they would even think that they didn't have the true power, but I don't believe in the special power that the LDS church claims to be the only holder of.<br /><br />I really appreciate your openness on your blog. Too many people trying to explain it away, and you are one of the few who admits there is a problem. Not easy to do. <br /><br />My last thought is that the church should consider all or nothing approach. Either 8 year olds have a full grasp on what they are getting themselves into, or they don't. Baptize the kids(who want to be baptized), but don't make them automatic church members. I don't think John the Baptist interviewed everyone to make sure they were acceptable to be baptized. He did question whether Jesus should be, but hey. I also think that there should be a Mormon Rumspringa. They told me that at 19, I wasn't old enough to know the decision I was making to leave the church. Apparently at 8, I had wisdom beyond my years and lost it. Maybe it would have been better for me if my inactive mom who had my younger sister out of wedlock(making me 8 when she got pregnant, lol), and my dad who was no longer a member and an alcoholic had been a factor in deciding whether or not I could get baptized.<br /><br />Sorry for the blog within a blog. ;)wholarmorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02026209510800525568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-27334685861790749432015-11-10T01:08:45.316-08:002015-11-10T01:08:45.316-08:00So there was a big thing before this came out wher...So there was a big thing before this came out where a polygamist daughter from the reality show Sister Wives wanted to get baptized in the LDS church, but was told she couldn't unless she disavowed her family. She stated that she didn't want to be a polygamist, but she wasn't going to deny her family. I thought that was a pretty stupid move on the church's part. I love how the D and C spells out how it's a commandment from God, and most Mormons agree that it will be going on in heaven anyway. They try so hard to distance themselves from polygamy that they're tripping over themselves. Hey Mormon Church! I have polygamist ancestors! They thought they were being obedient to God(until the government went after them...)<br />Anyway, I don't know if this is true, because it smells like a steamy pile, but someone said that the Mormon Church had issues with FLDS sending their kids over to get baptized with the true priesthood power, and apparently boys would get ordained, and then take it back to their branch of Mormonism. I don't see why they would even think that they didn't have the true power, but I don't believe in the special power that the LDS church claims to be the only holder of.<br /><br />I really appreciate your openness on your blog. Too many people trying to explain it away, and you are one of the few who admits there is a problem. Not easy to do. <br /><br />My last thought is that the church should consider all or nothing approach. Either 8 year olds have a full grasp on what they are getting themselves into, or they don't. Baptize the kids(who want to be baptized), but don't make them automatic church members. I don't think John the Baptist interviewed everyone to make sure they were acceptable to be baptized. He did question whether Jesus should be, but hey. I also think that there should be a Mormon Rumspringa. They told me that at 19, I wasn't old enough to know the decision I was making to leave the church. Apparently at 8, I had wisdom beyond my years and lost it. Maybe it would have been better for me if my inactive mom who had my younger sister out of wedlock(making me 8 when she got pregnant, lol), and my dad who was no longer a member and an alcoholic had been a factor in deciding whether or not I could get baptized.<br /><br />Sorry for the blog within a blog. ;)wholarmorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02026209510800525568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-52953365883955199442015-11-09T23:50:39.533-08:002015-11-09T23:50:39.533-08:00yes, when?!!! :-)yes, when?!!! :-)Jahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02138051318263001571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-76906085017557088062015-11-09T13:00:36.994-08:002015-11-09T13:00:36.994-08:00Thanks, Betty. The blacks and the priesthood polic...Thanks, Betty. The blacks and the priesthood policy is indeed another troubling one. I'm glad they finally got it right, and I personally hope that we can keep moving forward as a Church in every area relating to inclusion and equality. I believe that doctrines and policy should always be changing, of course -- I can't see any use for having a prophet on the earth if we can't install updates regularly. susan m hinckleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073318305866251569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-43067007176415690732015-11-09T12:57:48.169-08:002015-11-09T12:57:48.169-08:00Yes, let's. (You rescue me daily. Happy to ret...Yes, let's. (You rescue me daily. Happy to return the favor in any small measure.)susan m hinckleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073318305866251569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-26731278422561538682015-11-09T12:56:48.830-08:002015-11-09T12:56:48.830-08:00Interesting. Thanks for expanding my perspective o...Interesting. Thanks for expanding my perspective on this, Pwall, and for reading and taking time to share. I'm sure it does happen. I don't live in an area where there are a lot of polygamists. That being said, I actually was in a stake Primary presidency when we had 2 children from polygamous families baptized, so I am aware that it can happen. I think in the world at large there are likely to be more people who fall under the gay parent heading, not that that should really matter in setting policy. Just an observation. I'm wondering if polygamists don't bless/baptize their own children according to the doctrines and practices in their own religion? I assumed they would. I don't know how much their teachings overlap with ours. Anybody have more info on this? susan m hinckleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073318305866251569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-28177205702803400222015-11-09T12:48:32.109-08:002015-11-09T12:48:32.109-08:00Thanks, Mindy! I so appreciate your support. Just ...Thanks, Mindy! I so appreciate your support. Just knowing I'm not alone helps so much. No one I'd rather have as a spiritual sister. I hope we can make the "in real life" meeting happen someday soon.susan m hinckleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073318305866251569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-46041230164713050062015-11-09T12:43:40.819-08:002015-11-09T12:43:40.819-08:00Thanks, John. Speaking of dinner tables, when are ...Thanks, John. Speaking of dinner tables, when are we going to actually make that happen?susan m hinckleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073318305866251569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-42923846340850608812015-11-09T12:43:15.239-08:002015-11-09T12:43:15.239-08:00Regardless of whether one supports the church'...Regardless of whether one supports the church's official position on gay marriage or not, it's hard to not feel sad and/or confused about policies that build walls. Thanks so much for reading, Christy.susan m hinckleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10073318305866251569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-44510028178802872472015-11-09T07:09:46.206-08:002015-11-09T07:09:46.206-08:00Beautifully written. We've been taught the do...Beautifully written. We've been taught the doctrine and principles too well, not to notice when policies create disequilibrium and cognitive dissonance within us. For me, it dates all the way back to the 1800's and the policies regarding blacks in the church. Thank you for writing this; I totally support your position.Bettynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-74744506776544283102015-11-09T06:33:04.553-08:002015-11-09T06:33:04.553-08:00Susan. You. Are. Wonderful. Full stop. This is ...Susan. You. Are. Wonderful. Full stop. This is the first thing I've read that provided me any comfort or any kind of framework to handle the crippling sadness I've been experiencing. Thank you. Please let's meet in real life. Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17005760433835922085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-57972451477434705202015-11-09T05:01:48.672-08:002015-11-09T05:01:48.672-08:00I love what you have said here, and I love your fi...I love what you have said here, and I love your final stance. <br />Just as an FYI, I DO have a friend who, after being married for 20 years and having six children, joined a polygamous group. His wife did not. They didn't divorce, but he lived with his second wife and they had three children. The first wife wanted the final two of their children baptized, and the church said no. Under this very policy, as I understood it. It does happen.Pwallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13799098965042280792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-85498356202868944212015-11-08T23:18:18.679-08:002015-11-08T23:18:18.679-08:00I couldn't like this any more than I do. Thank...I couldn't like this any more than I do. Thank you, Susan. I think of you like a spiritual big sister and am grateful to have you as a (Facebook) friend...I'm certain I would like you as much in real life. mindyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18281399488401861671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-52637529606157974532015-11-08T22:40:06.327-08:002015-11-08T22:40:06.327-08:00Well said, beautifully presented. Respectful and a...Well said, beautifully presented. Respectful and authentic.<br /><br />Thank you for your words. You are invited at my dinner table anytime.John Beckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10308894433251210614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31647368216623792.post-42181604851829152962015-11-08T22:27:09.108-08:002015-11-08T22:27:09.108-08:00My heart sank when I heard the announcement. It s...My heart sank when I heard the announcement. It sounded like we were punishing children for circumstances out of their control. Not that I necessarily believe those circumstances to be as wrong or sinful as others may believe either.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10661006256135768171noreply@blogger.com